H.M. Ferry 'Thistle'
HM Ferry Thistle 23/11/1916
Displacement: 51 grt.
Length: 18 m. Beam: 5.5 m. Draught: 1.8m.
Propulsion: Steam, twin Screw, 20 hp
Complement: ?? officers and men.
Crew Lost: 0
Armament:
Displacement: 51 grt.
Length: 18 m. Beam: 5.5 m. Draught: 1.8m.
Propulsion: Steam, twin Screw, 20 hp
Complement: ?? officers and men.
Crew Lost: 0
Armament:
The steel ferry Thistle was built by Dee Shipbuilding & Engineering Company, Queensferry, Flintshire in 1897-98. Their first reported build were the three small ferries for Douglas, in 1897: Rose, Shamrock, and Thistle.
She was built for The Douglas Steam Ferries Company Limited 25 Athol St, Douglas, Isle of Man and registered in Douglas in March 1898. The ferry would run between the Victoria and the Battery Piers, Douglas, Isle of Man.
She was built for The Douglas Steam Ferries Company Limited 25 Athol St, Douglas, Isle of Man and registered in Douglas in March 1898. The ferry would run between the Victoria and the Battery Piers, Douglas, Isle of Man.
Isle of Man flag
Isle of Man Times - Tuesday 20 April 1897
Douglas Steam Ferries. -- At a recent meeting of the new company formed to work the Douglas Head Ferries between the Victoria and the Battery Piers, the directors went to allotment, when, as the shares were considerably over applied for. only about two-thirds of the number asked for, could be allotted. We under- stand that the new steel ferry boats being built for the company, on the Dee, are making satisfactory progress, and will be here before Whitweek. They are designed to carry 50 per cent more passengers than the largest of the boats which formerly worked the station. At a subsequent meeting of the directors, held on Wednesday, it was decided out of compliment to the adjacent kingdoms, to name the three vessels. Rose, Shamrock, and Thistle, respectively. The directors have neglected to recognise the Isle of Man in tie choice, but if they place a fourth boat on the station, would it not be a good idea to select as a name that flower (some people call it a weed) which Mr Hall Came says is the National flower of the Little Man Island : the Cushag?
Douglas Steam Ferries. -- At a recent meeting of the new company formed to work the Douglas Head Ferries between the Victoria and the Battery Piers, the directors went to allotment, when, as the shares were considerably over applied for. only about two-thirds of the number asked for, could be allotted. We under- stand that the new steel ferry boats being built for the company, on the Dee, are making satisfactory progress, and will be here before Whitweek. They are designed to carry 50 per cent more passengers than the largest of the boats which formerly worked the station. At a subsequent meeting of the directors, held on Wednesday, it was decided out of compliment to the adjacent kingdoms, to name the three vessels. Rose, Shamrock, and Thistle, respectively. The directors have neglected to recognise the Isle of Man in tie choice, but if they place a fourth boat on the station, would it not be a good idea to select as a name that flower (some people call it a weed) which Mr Hall Came says is the National flower of the Little Man Island : the Cushag?
This ferry is either Rose or Shamrock and is a sister ferry to Thistle
Thistle tied up
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Thistle working in Douglas
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Liverpool Mercury - Friday 04 June 1897
The Rose, a double-ended twin-screw steamer, has just been launched at Queen's Ferry by the Dee Shipbuilding and Engineering Company, to the order of the Douglas Steam Ferries Limited, a new company, the object of which is to run a service between the pier and Douglas Head. The vessel, which is 67 feet long, 18 feet beam, and 6ft. 9in. moulded depth, is built of steel, to the design of Mr. F. J. Waddington. In another fortnight the same firm will launch the sister steamer, Shamrock
The Rose, a double-ended twin-screw steamer, has just been launched at Queen's Ferry by the Dee Shipbuilding and Engineering Company, to the order of the Douglas Steam Ferries Limited, a new company, the object of which is to run a service between the pier and Douglas Head. The vessel, which is 67 feet long, 18 feet beam, and 6ft. 9in. moulded depth, is built of steel, to the design of Mr. F. J. Waddington. In another fortnight the same firm will launch the sister steamer, Shamrock
Isle of Man Times - Saturday 17 July 1897
The new ferry steamer Shamrock was given her trial trip on Sunday morning, in the presence of a Board of Trade inspector. She was taken out of the harbour and round the bay. Everything worked satisfactorily, and the inspector granted the certificate which entitled her to take up her position on the station between the Battery and Victoria Piers at 9 30 a.m. During the week both the Rose and the Shamrock ferry steamers have been busily employed. The third steamer for the Kerry Company, the Thistle, is rapidly approaching completion, and it is expected that she will be on the station before August Bank Holiday.
Isle of Man Times - Saturday 23 April 1898
The Thistle— the third boat belonging to the Douglas Steam Ferries, Limited — had a trial trip a few clays ago. The result was very satisfactory, this boat proving to be the fastest of the three belonging to the Company.
Isle of Man Times - Saturday 14 May 1898
All the steamers belonging to the Douglas Steam Ferries Company, the Rose, Shamrock, and 'Thistle, were sailed about the bay on Saturday, in connection with the annual inspection by the Board of Trade Surveyor. The trial was very satisfactory. Capt. McNamara, who acted last season as superintendent of the Douglas Steam Ferries, has been reappointed to that position for the coming season.
The new ferry steamer Shamrock was given her trial trip on Sunday morning, in the presence of a Board of Trade inspector. She was taken out of the harbour and round the bay. Everything worked satisfactorily, and the inspector granted the certificate which entitled her to take up her position on the station between the Battery and Victoria Piers at 9 30 a.m. During the week both the Rose and the Shamrock ferry steamers have been busily employed. The third steamer for the Kerry Company, the Thistle, is rapidly approaching completion, and it is expected that she will be on the station before August Bank Holiday.
Isle of Man Times - Saturday 23 April 1898
The Thistle— the third boat belonging to the Douglas Steam Ferries, Limited — had a trial trip a few clays ago. The result was very satisfactory, this boat proving to be the fastest of the three belonging to the Company.
Isle of Man Times - Saturday 14 May 1898
All the steamers belonging to the Douglas Steam Ferries Company, the Rose, Shamrock, and 'Thistle, were sailed about the bay on Saturday, in connection with the annual inspection by the Board of Trade Surveyor. The trial was very satisfactory. Capt. McNamara, who acted last season as superintendent of the Douglas Steam Ferries, has been reappointed to that position for the coming season.
WW1
In WW1 this small vessel was hired to the Admiralty.
Isle of Man Courier - Friday 15 December 1916
‘'WHAT'S IN A NAME.'' Shakespeare once wrote, ‘What's in a name.". There is, it seem to be, however, something. It is said that during the visit of the now defunct Douglas ferry boat Thistle to Ramsey some weeks ago, a certain notable was puzzled as to her name, and gave it up. He remarked that he had seen boats called after men women, and even dogs, but never after toffee. Something like the old lady perhaps, who had christened her dog '' Moreover." because she affirmed it was Scriptural.
Isle of Man Courier - Friday 15 December 1916
‘'WHAT'S IN A NAME.'' Shakespeare once wrote, ‘What's in a name.". There is, it seem to be, however, something. It is said that during the visit of the now defunct Douglas ferry boat Thistle to Ramsey some weeks ago, a certain notable was puzzled as to her name, and gave it up. He remarked that he had seen boats called after men women, and even dogs, but never after toffee. Something like the old lady perhaps, who had christened her dog '' Moreover." because she affirmed it was Scriptural.
Sister boat Shamrock circa 1905. LiWD collection
The Loss
The loss of this small craft was brought to the attention of LiWD by Ian Whittaker, author of ''Off Scotland''.
A document HD/1916/1450 ''HM Ferry boat "Thistle". Foundering of on 23rd November 1916 off Aberdeen while being towed in gale''.
was obtained from UKHO.
The file gave little details about route being taken, destination, or other vessels involved but looking at above newspaper article it can be assumed the ferry left the Isle of Man and took a route around north of Scotland to a port on the east coast.
HD/1916/1450
NL2 22758/16 C in C Scotland 30 .11.16
X Concur with paragraphs 1 and 3 of finding of Court of Enquiry and paragraph 3 of Senior Naval Officer Granton's letter.
.X.
A document HD/1916/1450 ''HM Ferry boat "Thistle". Foundering of on 23rd November 1916 off Aberdeen while being towed in gale''.
was obtained from UKHO.
The file gave little details about route being taken, destination, or other vessels involved but looking at above newspaper article it can be assumed the ferry left the Isle of Man and took a route around north of Scotland to a port on the east coast.
HD/1916/1450
NL2 22758/16 C in C Scotland 30 .11.16
X Concur with paragraphs 1 and 3 of finding of Court of Enquiry and paragraph 3 of Senior Naval Officer Granton's letter.
.X.
1) X The court finds that H.M. Ferry Boat ''Thistle'' was strained while being towed in a head sea after leaving Peterhead, and sprung a leak which could not be ept under with the only pump available.
3) The court are of the opinion that the risk of sending such a vessel to sea, not supplied with a compass, tarpaulins a boat at this season of the year is considerable.
.X. 3) I concur in the findings of the court observing that I consider it very unseamanlike to leave at this time of year without compass or precautionary measures for the safety of the ship.
S.N.O. Granton
3) The court are of the opinion that the risk of sending such a vessel to sea, not supplied with a compass, tarpaulins a boat at this season of the year is considerable.
.X. 3) I concur in the findings of the court observing that I consider it very unseamanlike to leave at this time of year without compass or precautionary measures for the safety of the ship.
S.N.O. Granton
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The Admiralty orders on this case as shown in detail in Telegram 2 No. 723 of 7.8.16 are very clear. The officers were directed to choose their weather and route ., to put into any port on the way they thought necessary or the safety of their vessels, and to ask for any escort or help they needed, of course including towing.
This steam vessel was being towed at the time she sprang a leak and foundered. Fortunately no lives were lost. Most of these craft are too small to carry a boat and could only tow it which would not have been very satisfactory. As to the compass, nearly 40 of these vessels have been safely navigated around the coast recently for the convenience of the S.N.O's of bases at which they were to work and they all had the necessary appliance except in one case. In this case a compass was applied for to the Admiralty and immediately supplied. This particular vessel ''THISTLE'' had a boat's compass on board and apparently the commanding officer intended to use it as he had made no application for another moreover in question 20 it will be observed that he states that he felt assured that the craft would be safe. Defects of the compass however had nothing to do with the loss.
That she should have run into bad weather is partly accounted for by the fact that although the orders to send navigating party and remove here were issued on 21st September, she was apparently much delayed on her passage, and she did not founder until 2 months later. It was of course not anticipated she would be two months on passage and naturally she would never have ordered to start a coast passage in such a month as November.
No doubt the Commanding Officer was not used to handling and navigating such a small craft, and did his best.
It is proposed to take no further action.
(Sd.) H.G. Gechy
Y.P. 21st December 1916.
The Admiralty orders on this case as shown in detail in Telegram 2 No. 723 of 7.8.16 are very clear. The officers were directed to choose their weather and route ., to put into any port on the way they thought necessary or the safety of their vessels, and to ask for any escort or help they needed, of course including towing.
This steam vessel was being towed at the time she sprang a leak and foundered. Fortunately no lives were lost. Most of these craft are too small to carry a boat and could only tow it which would not have been very satisfactory. As to the compass, nearly 40 of these vessels have been safely navigated around the coast recently for the convenience of the S.N.O's of bases at which they were to work and they all had the necessary appliance except in one case. In this case a compass was applied for to the Admiralty and immediately supplied. This particular vessel ''THISTLE'' had a boat's compass on board and apparently the commanding officer intended to use it as he had made no application for another moreover in question 20 it will be observed that he states that he felt assured that the craft would be safe. Defects of the compass however had nothing to do with the loss.
That she should have run into bad weather is partly accounted for by the fact that although the orders to send navigating party and remove here were issued on 21st September, she was apparently much delayed on her passage, and she did not founder until 2 months later. It was of course not anticipated she would be two months on passage and naturally she would never have ordered to start a coast passage in such a month as November.
No doubt the Commanding Officer was not used to handling and navigating such a small craft, and did his best.
It is proposed to take no further action.
(Sd.) H.G. Gechy
Y.P. 21st December 1916.
Isle of Man Courier - Tuesday 12 December 1916
MANX STEAMER FOUNDERS.
News has been received to the effect that the Douglas steam ferryboat Thistle, has foundered, but no lives have been lost. She, along With ‘the other two boats, Rose and Shamrock, were commandeered by the Government some time ago. On her wav northwards, the Thistle and also the Rose put into Ramsey harbour, the former remaining for about a couple of weeks. She was in command of Lieut, Tobin, R.N.R and had a rough time of it rounding the Mull
MANX STEAMER FOUNDERS.
News has been received to the effect that the Douglas steam ferryboat Thistle, has foundered, but no lives have been lost. She, along With ‘the other two boats, Rose and Shamrock, were commandeered by the Government some time ago. On her wav northwards, the Thistle and also the Rose put into Ramsey harbour, the former remaining for about a couple of weeks. She was in command of Lieut, Tobin, R.N.R and had a rough time of it rounding the Mull
Isle of Man Courier - Friday 12 January 1917
OTHER MANX BOATS SUNK IN THE WAR.
Empress Queen-—Sunk through fog on the South Coast.
The Ramsey—Sunk in action in the North Sea,
Thistle (ferry-boat) —Sunk.
In addition to the above, the Peel Castle was badly damaged by fire, but she has been refitted and is on service again, At least three other of our boats have been gold to the Government.
